Wikifunctions:Project chat/Archive/2023/11

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Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #131 is out: Python on WebAssembly; Improved Object selector; Next volunteer's corner

There is a new update for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it!

In this issue, we discuss our latest technical improvements on Wikifunctions.

Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check our archive!

Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next Volunteers' Corner will be held on November 13, at 18:30 UTC (link to the meeting).

Enjoy the reading! -- User:Sannita (WMF) (talk) 12:16, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Any plans to extend the languages supported beyond just javascript and python? Rust has good support for WebAssembly. 0xDeadbeef (talk) 12:17, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

@0xDeadbeef There are no plans yet to start working on that, as far as I know, but I asked the team to confirm this. Sannita (WMF) (talk) 16:39, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Sannita (WMF) (talk) 14:58, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #132 is out: Wikifunctions, the library of functions that anyone can use and edit

There is a new update for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it!

In this issue, we finally announce that Wikifunctions is on general availability, and that functions can be run also by non-logged in users!

Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check our archive!

Also, we remind you that if you have questions or ideas to discuss, the next Volunteers' Corner will be held on November 13, at 18:30 UTC (link to the meeting).

Enjoy the reading! -- User:Sannita (WMF) (talk) 09:50, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Sannita (WMF) (talk) 14:58, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Removal of Translation admin rights

Recently temporary admin rights of a user have expired. Since this user has self-granted translation admin I also requested removal of these rights on Meta. On Meta I was asked to discuss this locally. I would like to suggest that we remove self-granted translation admin rights from users if their temporary admin rights have expired. --Ameisenigel (talk) 10:21, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Support Terasail ^[✉️] 17:06, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Or just put a temporary guideline in place that if you are a temporary administrator you can't grant yourself permanent rights. Zippybonzo (talk) 20:31, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Support --99of9 (talk) 04:53, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Support and I agree with Zippybonzo. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 07:33, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

I have changed Wikifunctions:Translation administrators accordingly. --Ameisenigel (talk) 16:17, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ameisenigel (talk) 16:17, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

Functioneer granting and removal proposal

Following the above discussion #Your input needed: Functioneer role definition & policies and the move to general availability for Wikifunctions, I am proposing granting requirements and removal criteria for Functioneers which will come into effect once Wikifunctions Staff hand over Functioneer group management to the community. The proposal follows Wikidata Property Creator granting and removal requirements quite closely and I think this is a good first step with granting relying on administrator discretion at the moment which fits the current state of Wikifunctions. I made a mock-up of the sections which can be found at Special:Permalink/60403, the requirements are as follows:

Requirements

The user is a trusted member of the community, with a history of working with functions, implementations and test cases.
The user has shown a satisfactory understanding of how Wikifunctions works, especially regarding functions, implementations, test cases and related concepts.

Granting

Administrators may grant Functioneer to any user who meets the requirements 48 hours after the request is posted at Wikifunctions:Apply for editing#Functioneer and there has been no objection. The group may be granted immediately to users who are former Functioneers where the reason for removal was uncontroversial or due to inactivity.

Removal

The Functioneer user group will be removed from any user which meets one of the following:

Any functioneer that does not use the Functioneer toolset within a year will have the group removed due to inactivity.
The Functioneer group will be removed from a user if community consensus is reached at WF:AN or WF:PC following a discussion.

Votes

Do you support adding this to WF:Functioneers, do you have anything you wish to see added / removed / changed to this proposal? Thanks Terasail ^[✉️] 12:35, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

Support Looks good to me. --99of9 (talk) 00:47, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Support --Ameisenigel (talk) 10:22, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Support Msz2001 (talk) 10:57, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Support looks about right. - Zippybonzo (talk) 09:20, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

Comments

Update: I have added the sections to WF:Functioneers with the support above, if anything changes then this can easily be reverted given the fact that WF staff are still managing the group for now. Terasail ^[✉️] 15:51, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Sannita (WMF) (talk) 17:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Wikifunctions & Abstract Wikipedia Newsletter #133 is out: What types next?

There is a new update for Abstract Wikipedia and Wikifunctions. Please, come and read it!

In this issue, we discuss which new types of functions should we support and the latest changes to the software.

Want to catch up with the previous updates? Check our archive!

Enjoy the reading! -- User:Sannita (WMF) (talk) 15:10, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Sannita (WMF) (talk) 17:35, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Mark for translation

Would a translation admin mind marking Wikifunctions:Bureaucrats for translation? Wikifunctions:Translation administrators doesn't seem to indicate a translation admin noticeboard the way some wikis have, please let me know if there is a better place to request this DannyS712 (talk) 22:01, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

@DannyS712 Isn't Wikifunctions:Translators' noticeboard what you're looking for? Sabelöga (talk) 22:53, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

@Sabelöga that seems like a noticeboard for the translators who make the translations, not the translation admins who set it up, if I'm reading it correctly - if that is not the case we should make it clear DannyS712 (talk) 04:18, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @Terasail, though for some reason the extension seems to be lagging in its processing of the page - I manually created Translations:Wikifunctions:Bureaucrats/23/es and that prompted the creation of a /es subpage, but it still doesn't think its a translation page - maybe make some kind of dummy (but non-null) edit and mark the page for translation again, just to poke the system? Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 04:23, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

In the meantime I have marked the page for translation again. Seems like everything is working now. --Ameisenigel (talk) 08:38, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

There's an erratic and hard-to-diagnose bug (phab:T320220) that sometimes causes delays in how soon we're able to use the "Translate this page" link. I sometimes have to wait ~15 minutes before a page is ready. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 19:37, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: DannyS712 (talk) 09:54, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

permission to add English name?

I'm getting a permission error when I try to add the English title to this function: Breton plural -ioù and soft mutation (Z11786). I'm a functioneer and have changed plenty of other labels, so I'm not sure what's different about this one. Is there a bug? Can anyone else edit it? --99of9 (talk) 07:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

I edited it: https://www.wikifunctions.org/w/index.php?title=Z11787&diff=59778&oldid=59776 but weirdly, I cannot undo it. And I am a global rollbacker (e.g. I can rollback your and my comments here on this page.) ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 07:45, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Try Breton plural -ioù and soft mutation (Z11786). It looks like your edit was Breton plural -ioù and soft mutation, composition (Z11787). --99of9 (talk) 10:48, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

I am also unable to edit Breton plural -ioù and soft mutation (Z11786), I get a "User does not have permission to edit" error. Terasail ^[✉️] 11:35, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

I just test edited it again and undid it again: https://www.wikifunctions.org/wiki/Z11787?action=history&uselang=en very bizarre. Also, for me [[Z11787]] displays as "Breton plural -iù and soft mutation, composition (Z11787)", but [[Z11786]] is "Untitled (Z11786)". ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 18:08, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Hmm, I was able to create the label with my staff account, and then edit it with a normal Functioneer account. (In hindsight, I should have tested that in the reverse order; I was expecting to reproduce the problem. Sorry about that.)

Are there any other examples of the same problem? Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 19:33, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that seems to have fixed it. I think maybe it was clashing with a cached version of a different item with the same name [1], but the error message was about permissions rather than the existing name. In any case, I can no longer reproduce the problem, I'll look out for it happening again. --99of9 (talk) 23:49, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

@Quiddity (WMF): to reproduce the bug, use the duplicate gadget (Mediawiki:Gadget-duplicate.js, it was created and then remove from the list of gadget by Ebrahim to avoid more problems, maybe they can tell us more ; there was also a thread on Telegram, something about keys renumbering IIUC). Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 08:26, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@Quiddity (WMF) and VIGNERON:: As the result that discussion I disabled the tool from preferences but if you want to reproduce the issue you can manually execute the gadget on JS console. Sorry about the trouble the tool has made. Thanks! −ebrahim^talk 13:08, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Adding Spreadsheetfunctions and Visual Programming Languages to Wikifunctions

From my point of view not every one will be able to edit functions in Wikifunctions soon. It is too complicated to create or edit functions at the moment at least for me. There are mony people who can use Spreadsheetfunctions. I hope that there will be support for Spreadsheetfunctions and Visual programming languages soon. As people and the way how they learn and interact with a graphical user interface are different I think it will be not possible to enable all people to create functions on Wikifunctions. In the last three years I spent a lot of time on experimenting with different ways to generate source code. You can find some source code at WikimediaFoundation Gitlab and I hope something like that will be integrated in Wikifunctions. Maybe it is possible to create tools to add support for Spreadsheetfunctions and Visual Programming Languages into Wikifunctions soon at least through mapping the source code of blocks or spreadsheetfunctions to the programming languages Python and JavaScript. So offering a kind of Transpiler. Where the user gets the source code out of the tool and then needs to insert the source code in Wikifunctions. I wrote scripts in the programming language R for the described cases. Do you think that can be helpful for Wikifunctions and can someone help me creating such tools. I think whats missing is a user interface and how to combine the program for the frontend with the backend. I do not have experience with creating User interfaces. Please tell me what you think about that. Hogü-456 (talk) 16:59, 17 November 2023 (UTC)

@Hogü-456: I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean exactly... Plus, isn't "composition" kind of similar to Visual Programming Languages? Anyway, I'll let the team answers but it is scheduled to add more languages to implementations. Cheers, VIGNERON (talk) 08:33, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

I know that there are plans to add support for more programming languages and the way how compositions can be defined is a bit similar to Visual programming languages. I hope that after I mentioned it here again it will be checked if it is possible to use some parts of what I have written or at least do something similar. My expectations at the beginning have been too high and so maybe it is not necessary to add support of what I mentioned and I just need to spend more time to understand how it is possible to create functions in Wikifunctions.--Hogü-456 (talk) 17:27, 18 November 2023 (UTC)

How do I use a function somewhere else?

How do I use a WikiFunction somewhere outside of Wikifunctions, for example, Wikipedia? Aaron Liu (talk) 18:43, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

At the moment it's not yet possible to call Wikifunctions from other wikis. As far as I know, it's also impossible to call one function from other (apart from composition). Msz2001 (talk) 18:48, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

I am interested in using some functions of Wikifunctions implemented in Python outside of Wikifunctions. From my point of view it is an important question how far the functions of Wikifunctions will be reused outside of the Wikimedia projects and if it is a goal of Wikifunctions to enable reuse and calling from outside the Wikimedia projects or not. I think it is not necessary to offer a public API for Wikifunctions to access functions for computational purposes outside of the Wikimedia projects. Instead it should be easy to integrate a function into another script through copy and paste a function and change the variable and function name and I hope that if Spreadsheetfunctions are available as a kind of implementation it will be possible to reuse it for many people. I looked at some function implementations in Python and I think it is possible to reuse them. I try to do it in the next days and then I will let you know about my experience with reusing functions of Wikifunctions.--Hogü-456 (talk) 21:31, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Object Diff reader user script

Hello, I have made a user script which will change an object diff to show object labels (Object/Function call/Reverse string) instead of the zObject id (Z1/Z7/Z10012...). This will get the labels in the language that the page is displayed in (If the object has a label for that language). If you are interested in trying/using it then you can add importScript('User:Terasail/ReadableDiff.js'); to your /common.js page. Terasail ^[✉️] 12:28, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

I've found this script really helpful, thanks. If you don't want to navigate to the page yourself to look at the code, its at User:Terasail/ReadableDiff.js --DannyS712 (talk) 09:54, 1 December 2023 (UTC)